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Author Topic: Hoh. castellanosii seasonal change  (Read 4047 times)
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bromadorer
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« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2011, 05:34:36 »

Alfina, I'm in northern N.S.W, and I have been very neglectful of my plant.
Kerry, if thats as good as it gets, I'll be happy with that, but hope that next year it might go a little more red for me. I notice it doesn't have the nice form of lisas ones though, but maybe it will change as it gets older? Its very hard to find a dry spot in my back yard. So much rain these last couple of years, and a shady winter block doesn't help. Anyway, its live or die here, for my plants (my V. 'Nova' is proof of that) and I don't even cry anymore! he he.
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« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2011, 12:16:58 »

Kerry,

I bought two pectinatas at the same time, same size both offsets from the same mother. The green one is going to BA but is still green not yet exposed to direct sunlight - the other has been getting a good dose of afternoon sunlight.

I'm enjoying the theories - I recently acquired two slightly differant forms of Hoh. castellanosii and I've only managed to burn the tips and not colour them up.

Rick
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Lisa
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« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2011, 18:55:51 »


So, could this be the reason why Ho. castellanosii colours the most intensely in the summer months in the years before it flowers? Kind of like a sympathy vote for its flowering counterparts?


When did Hohs get the right to vote?  Was there a brom suffrage movement when I wasn't looking?  So you're saying it may be like an expectant father having labor pains, Kerry?  Even though the actual laborer (laboree?) in this case is nowhere to be seen?  (my plants have never bloomed) 

Interesting theory... but a bit far fetched for me.  I still think light levels (and possibly heat) are the most obvious answers, but I haven't checked to see if they may be receiving alien transmissions from the planet Zebulon.

What would be interesting to see is whether or not an otherwise green plant in another zone would turn red when it bloomed (assuming it could be induced to bloom).  Maybe somebody could dose one with ethylene and see what happens.   
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« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2011, 22:02:37 »

I once put some Ethephon on a castellansoii late in the year and it didn't flower or change color. However, it did put out a nice group of pups. I guess that the overlords from Zebulon were only slightly unhappy with me.
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« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2011, 23:00:50 »

Every time I see Lisa's Hc's, I feel like putting my war paint on (red!), and go and dance around my plants until the sweat (tears?) stream down my face in red streaks and splatter on my plants!  At least that will be a little red - however temporary!!!

Kerry!  I did a bit of nosing around.  In Elton Leme's book he mentions them growing only on the sandy coastal plains on the southern, Bahian coastline.  He also said that the inflo is totally green and draws attention by the fact that its leaves turn red only in the flowering season.  So Lisa, maybe the colouring - and loosing it - of the leaves has got nothing to do with the environmental factors, but if it is their flowering season - whether they flower or not - they turn red.  Provided they are growing in the right climate.

Now, Kerry, that coastal plains that Leme mentioned . . . .  The coastal plains that I know, consist of nothing but beach sand.  And where the vegetation starts, there are some dried plant matter all around the plants.  And that is the only difference between the sand on the beach and that a bit further away.  Ok, and there might be some fresh salt in the beach sand but further away the rain has washed that mostly away over the many years since it last had some sea water flowing over it.  But the sea spray will still keep it a bit salty.  Now in stead of just running to the kitchen and get my salt shaker, I went off to the beach about 2 months ago and got myself a buckit of beach sand - a bit higher up where the dunes and the vegetation starts.  I mixed in a little bit of well decomposed compost to provide just a little bit of organic matter, and planted a nice, healthy GREEN H castellanosii pup in there.  I put that pup in my shade house under 80% white shade cloth.  The fist pup that I removed from my original plant which is a nice mature size allready, also got transplanted into that beach sand mix, but I kept that pot on the paving at the edge of my swimming pool in direct sun (late morning till mid afternoon).  My original plant, I left in its original potting mix and sits on the other edge of my swimming pool which gets sun from midday to late afternoon.

And here is the result:

Hc in 'normal' potting medium (to which some dolomitic lime was added about a year ago) in afternoon sun:
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Hc in beach sand mix in midday sun
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Hc in beach sand mix in the shade house
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I was hoping to get some more colour before I spilled the beans, but I promise if this last one behaves to my liking in the shade house, I will send you an autographed picture of it by the end of next Summer!!!


And this is what my Aech ampla looks like at the moment (with the beach-sand Hc next to it).  Last Summer it got some sunburn, so this past Summer I gave it a little bit more shade.
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Kerry T.
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« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2011, 23:20:04 »

Oh hardy har har!  Roll Eyes  I knew that joking reference to "sympathy vote" could possibly blow my whole theory!

More I meant that the younger plants not ready to flower yet, still flush with more colour in the species' usual flowering period, to add extra attraction and attention to the usual pollinators of their specific natural habitat. After all, for most of any species' existence, the offsets are not removed by humans, but form large and scattered clumps within specific areas. I still suspect this is an evolved habit due to harsh conditions for survival - and possible lack of appropriate pollinating creatures near by? I interpret that as a necessary signal developed over time, due to what is needed to keep the species going, with the aid of the specific creatures who pollinate them. I remember Bruce telling me (as mentioned yonks ago on GW forum) that other species which grow in the same area as Ho. castellanosii in coastal Brazil, north of Rio, like Neo. cruenta, attract the same pollinators with their most intense red on lime colouring at anthesis.

How else do you explain the way immature plants of Ae. pectinata do the same thing when mature plants are in bloom? And in that particular species' case, the younger plants flush with some colour in both strong light or shade in garden horticulture - noted from my own experience of growing clumps and divided individual specimens of that species over several generations under various light conditions.

Bring on more alien jokes then... Tongue

K

Oops - just now see that Japie has slipped a response in before I post this. I'll still post this here anyway, unless Scotty beams me up.

 

 
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Kerry T.
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« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2011, 00:12:44 »

Japie! Thanks for your supportive back-up comments and photos. I look forward to your autographed photo come end of next summer. I'll clear some wall space in anticipation. 

You have done very well with your shade house-grown offset to still get the attractive lime-yellow, no blackened tips, AND some red! Between the two of us - you win! I agree we can't compete with the colour of Lisa's, which as you've pointed out, is atypical of the species in their native growing conditions.

I love the fact that you searched and collected beach sand (and from dunes nearer sparse vegetation) to add to your carefully considered growing media. Such dedication is admirable indeed!

And your Ae. ampla looks fantastic! Thanks for the tip re it getting a tad sunburned in full sun. On the strength of your specimen turning red on its leaves quite quickly after purchase, as you previously showed us, I did import a couple from Michael which survived the gassing and are now pupping - but still all green. Do you feed your ampla? Any more special tips to get mine looking like yours?

K     
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Lisa
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« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2011, 01:06:45 »

These are some interesting ideas, but before we jump to any conclusions, here are a few points to consider:

Do we know for sure when H. c. blooms in its native habitat?  I'm not discounting the possibility that there may be some deeply embedded adaptive behavior in its genes, but if the color were triggered merely by it being the proper blooming season (rather than by actual environmental conditions), then why would this not occur in all zones? 

Re: the beach sand thing: it's hard not to admire Japie's dedication, and the results might actually convince me he was onto something, were it not for the fact that I have nothing remotely resembling beach sand in my mix. It may in fact be a good media for the plant... but it doesn't explain what is going on with mine.

Also, if the secret is in the media, then why the seasonal change?  These two theories seem to cancel each other out.

On the other hand, it does coincide remarkably with the fleen-gromaging season on Zebulon. 



 
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« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2011, 05:33:16 »

Ho, Hoh.,from Auckland NZ,
After seeing Lisa's red tips on the G.W. forum about a year ago I realised that I had to lift my game regarding Hoh. cultivation....I had to have those red tips too!
Like Avane I read up about their coastal home habitat so I put a pinch of salt down the snout of my plants and put them high in the plastic house next to the roof, in prime Bill. roasting territory and here's the result after all summer in this situation.
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From no red tips a year before at least now I'm a quarter of the way towards Lisa's beautifully cooked plants.
On that early G.W. post, Lisa also said that she had a friend with a surperbly coloured clump growing in concrete chunks instead of potting mix which would stress the plants due to alkalinity as well as the brutal heat on her driveway. Anyway this cultivation insight along with Avane's promising 'sand mix' results has given rise to next summer's strategy. I plan to try a potting mix of sand and broken shells(which should also produce an alkaline mix) as well as mimicing the rooting medium of the plant's home habitat. In other words I plan to copy Avane's growing strategy but with shells thrown in!
Lisa's probably holding her head and thinking what a lot of drama to go to for red tips. But I don't think she realises how good Hawaii is for red hot tips!

Mitche
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« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2011, 07:07:03 »

Hi all,

I wonder if the alkalinity isn't a big factor. There's a pic on fcbs of a long-dead clump of a H. castellanosii I imported from Brazil via Big Len C (people usually associate him with Bolivia and Ecuador these days but he sure gets around). It was in full sun in sandstone and a coarse sandy soil from the local sandstone country inland a bit, so possibly a little alkaline. It died in a the cold wet autumn & winter about 15 yrs ago, but used to go red each summer, flowering most years - RIP. None of my other clumps coloured up that well growing in the local dirt with pinebark mulch - very acidic but fine for many broms, kinda went a purplish colour. All have rotted off now though plants from them will be all over Queensland in particular where it's warmer. Bruce has the last remnants of my last clump so all will be well - BUT put them in concrete and that diamataceous earth, Bruce, and see if they colour! I think I'll do the same with my remaining plants and A ampla, which is growing under alkaline conditions at Selby in the local shelly sand.

Has anyone had experience with the variegated form of castellanosii that Michael K sells? Will it take the sun too?

Like the Hoh, removing pups from A ampla is not for the fainthearted - blood is inevitable. Here's a famous clump at Selby (with a bit of sunscreen too). I wonder if it's the source of the ones on the market these days. I'm putting mine inside soon for the winter.

In terms of latitude, I'm at nearly 30.5 S. Pushing it to grow a lot of really tropical stuff outside all year.
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Cheers, Pedro
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« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2011, 07:55:20 »

Mitche only wants the extreme red tips so he can smash us all at the monthly meeting show,good looking plant Mitche
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Lisa
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« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2011, 08:38:20 »


Has anyone had experience with the variegated form of castellanosii that Michael K sells? Will it take the sun too?


What... huh??  Variegated Hoh. castellanosii?!?!?  Shocked  Where did you see that, Pedro? 

Lisa's probably holding her head and thinking what a lot of drama to go to for red tips. But I don't think she realises how good Hawaii is for red hot tips!


It wouldn't be a lot of drama if it worked, Mitche.  But as you point out, Hawaii is good for red tips, and it has nothing to do with shells and sand, so that can't be the reason.  I'll concede that it might help, but mine are in our usual cinder/peat/perlite mix, so it's obviously not dependent on alkaline conditions.  That's the main point I'm trying to make here.  Yes, my friend had it in a hollow tile cooking on her driveway and it looked great, but when she moved it (tile and all) into the shade it turned green.  Light conditions.
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« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2011, 13:59:42 »

I guess there is always the fallback conclusion that there are several clones of Hc and some are better than others. It doesn't appear to be all that rare and was probably collected and distributed more than once.
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Lisa
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« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2011, 19:43:24 »

There may be several clones, but I know mine came from Michael (via my friend), and so did Japie's. 
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« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2011, 22:56:48 »

Quote
What... huh??  Variegated Hoh. castellanosii?!?!?  Shocked  Where did you see that, Pedro? 
Lisa, sold in New O by Michael K. Sort of striated shades of green but quite attractive. Should be interesting if it colours up too. Will take a pic if it stops raining. :-) Pedro
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