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Author Topic: NEW REGISTRATION  (Read 568 times)
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splinter1804
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« on: April 01, 2016, 23:05:02 »

Hi everyone.

This post is to introduce you to a new Vriesea hybrid recently registered on the B.C.R. and bred by our member John Lambert. I personally find this plant very interesting, with its recurved garnet/ burgundy coloured leaves and contrasting upright bright yellow coloured inflorescence. It has now been registered as  Vriesea. ‘Jags Hunua Gloss’
See http://registry.bsi.org/?id=13379&whatsnew#13379

It is a cross between a popular species (Vr. ospinae var. gruberi) which was the seed parent and has been successfully used before in breeding to produce 10 B.C.R. registered hybrids.
See: http://registry.bsi.org/?fields=Parents&id=11249&search=ospinae%20var.%20gruberi

The pollen parent was a popular (almost 20 year) old hybrid, Vr. ‘Angela’ which itself has a most impressive track record as a parent. It has produced no less than 41 quality hybrids which are registered on the B.C.R. See: http://registry.bsi.org/?fields=Parents&id=11031&search=angela These include 12 from the popular ‘Jack’s Angel’ series bred by Jack Koning.
See: http://registry.bsi.org/?fields=&id=10607&search=jacks%20angel 

So, congratulations John and keep up the good work.

All the best, Nev.


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jaga
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« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2016, 07:00:56 »

Thanks Nev, that's nice of you!.

Just to add,
1- this plant has a grex mate, 'Jags hunua Fire'
2-Vriesea Angela, ( Fosteriana x Brentwood). so colour and flower, check out 'Brentwood'
3-'Jags' is our pretext name and 'Hunua' is John Mitchels , we combined because I gave him the seed and he did a wonderful job of growing this grex.

The idea here was to create foliage vriesea with a great flower spike, I didnt have 'brentwood' but the spike genes are in Angela also I have used Angela with some others yet to flower so will take some images of those.

Cheers-John
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splinter1804
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« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2016, 08:36:32 »

Hi everyone.

John - I had previously looked at ‘Jags Hunua Fire’ (http://registry.bsi.org/?genus=VRIESEA&id=13096#13096)
and although it has a great looking inflorescence I prefer ‘Jags Hunua Gloss’ due to the great contrast between the foliage and the inflorescence colour.

Although I can see a similarity between the inflorescence on Vr. Jags ‘Hunua Gloss’ and my plant of Vr. ‘Brentwood’, you must have a different information source than me because you give the parentage of Vr. ‘Angela’ as Vr. fosteriana x Vr.’Brentwood’; what I see about Vr. ‘Angela’  on the BCR and the FCBS Photo Index, they both record it as being made by Lou Forrest from a ?platynema hybrid seed parent and an unknown pollen parent, so I can’t see that being the source of the genes for the inflorescence on your plant, and I suspect it’s more than likely come from the Vr. ospinae gruberi parent.

Just to throw a spanner in the works, interestingly,The Aust Brom Society Photo Index shows Vriesea ‘Angela’ as a Hybrid bred by Van Schie (A Belgian hybridizer), and registered by Deroose, but no parents are given. http://www.bromeliad.org.au/pictures/Vriesea/Angela.htm

However a search on the BCR only shows Van Schie as having bred a Tillandsia ‘Angela’….. No mention of a Vr. ‘Angela’. Has there been a mix up with the genus names somewhere along the line?

Where did you get you information from John?

You certainly picked a good mate to grow your seed; I’ve just been checking out John Mitchell on the BCR and he’s got some great Vriesea registrations to his credit and I'm looking forward to seeing what others he turns out from your seed.

All the best, Nev.
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« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2016, 21:08:41 »

All I can say here Nev, is info comes via several collectors and a well known vreisea breeder in Austrailia. I had this info before I used the pollen with aim of a wonderful flower spike. You can also see that John Arden used Brentwood a lot. Unfortunately I don't think Brentwood is in NZ. Maybe you can photogragh yours. To my knowledge there are different forms of this plant and it is unstable as far as the spike is concerned and its colour.

The 2 ospinea var gruberi x Angela registered both exhibited a super boasted spikes with up to 12 paddles. (Side branches go spike)The original mother plant had 4 paddles and Angela is a single spike. Also the ovg x Angela grew with enormous vigor compared to a normal vriesea from seed and the whole grex has ended up twice as large as the original parents. Also the pups on Jags Hunua Fire are nearly as big as the parent. So in conclusion those combined traits means there I's some very strong genes in the back ground in Angela. Thus I'm a believer of what I have been told.
To add if the Angela parent had been 'platynemia', there would be the longitudinal leaf lines which simply do not exist.

Cheers John.
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splinter1804
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« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2016, 00:34:59 »

Hi everyone.

I agree with what you say John. Every time I see a "?" on the name of a plant I'm suspicious and from what I hear and read I don't think anyone really knows who the parents of 'Angela' really were and information seems to be pretty well all supposition with a lot of other question marks.

The thing is, if anyone knows any more about the breeding history of 'Angela', why not send it to the registrar for inclusion with the other info on the B.C.R. as it may build up a picture and help solve the puzzle.

What puzzled me most was the different records showing different origins and hybridisers, Forrest (Aust) and Van Schie (Belgium).

I don't have any pictures of my Vr. Brentwood and it isn't in flower at present. All I can say is that it had an inflorescence almost identical in size and shape (re number of paddles) to the NOID in my picture (attached) but unlike the NOID the colour was a brilliant yellow. I know this as both plants were growing side by side and I only photographed the NOID because I posted the pic to various sites trying to find an ID. The height incidentally, was approx 36" from the bottom of the pot to the tip of the inflorescence.

The colour of my Brentwood also made me suspicious about the accuracy of the name as most of the Brentwood pictures on the BCR and FCBS are shades of orange, whereas my plant has yellow bracts and yellow flowers.

All the best, Nev.


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« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2016, 00:44:11 »

Thanks Nev, Yellow form is under 'Brentwood' on BCR notes. Just how there can be forms gets me as well ?. As far as stirring up the BCR with this, I believe that was tried, say no more.

See how similar the flower in your image above is to Jags Hunua fire, & Gloss.

John.
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« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2016, 23:47:11 »

Hi everyone.

John - I was still very curious about the unsolved lineage of Vr. 'Angela' so I contacted Jack Koning as I thought if anyone would know he would, and this is my question and Jack's answer which he gave me permission to post on this thread.

Hi Jack - I'd like to pick your very knowledgeable "vriesea brain" if I may. We are currently discussing plant registrations on a bromeliad forum and the question about the heritage of Vr. Angela has come up. I seem to remember the same discussion on the old Garden Web Forums but I can' find the particular thread to use as a reference. The thing is, the BCR tells us that Angela was made by Lou Forrest from a ?platynema hybrid seed with no pollen parent given.    A member from N.Z. says he has it on good authority that Angela was bred from Vr. fosteriana x Vr.’Brentwood’ . When I looked in The Aust Brom Society Photo Index, it shows Vriesea ‘Angela’ as a Hybrid bred by Van Schie (A Belgian hybridizer), and registered by Deroose, but no parents are given. Can you please shed any light on this dilemma?                                         

Thanks in advance                                     

All the best, Nev.

Nev. Well the best info I have is that V " Angela " is V fosteriana " Red Chestnut " X V " Brentwood" , it was named for a young lady that worked for Bob Larnach at their nursery, the late Lou Forrest told me he created it , now it is possible that others made this cross, but no one else can claim the name " Angela" I sent this info to NZ some time ago, I selfed this plant as well as remade this cross and there is absolutely NO v platynema in its make up, many people will claim to have bred a plant once it can't be traced , " Angela" breeds according to the parentage I have given , I have used it a lot same as John Mitchell in NZ, never a sign of V platynema, the V "Brentwood" used is the orange flowered variety NOT the yellow flowered form, as I have no credentials everyone likes to ignore me in this Neville, not that I care, I started hybridising foliage vriesea's when there were no hybrids in Oz and few in the world, most European hybrids were based on flowering types, not foliage types, and if Van Shie or Deroose had a finger in the pie , HOW COME they can't state the full parentage ? bullshit mate the whole bloody lot of them.

Cheers Neville, anytime mate

Hi Jack - Thanks so much for your prompt answer, I seem to remember some of this on the old Garden Web Forum I mentioned but I wasn't sure as the old memory isn't what it once was. Can I post this into the discussion we're currently having on the Bromeliad Forum or would you prefer to keep it between the two of us?   

Thanks again, Nev.

You can mention my reply anywhere Neville, take care my friend

So that can now be added to our history also.

All the best, Nev.
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« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2016, 09:46:05 »

Nev, Yep OK, as I said it was a "well known Austrailian Vriesea breeder " above and now you may as well know it was Jack just  wanted to be careful, but you have foiled me. Was given all this info back in 2009 when I used Vriesea Angela.

'Now that the cat is out of the bag', it'd been a very common grip in a lot of discussions re the registration just why parents are not given or wrongly given. Quite anoying for us all now trying to trace plants genes.
Thanks for contacting Jack and the info Nev, I'm sure this will interest many.
John.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2016, 09:49:29 by jaga » Logged
splinter1804
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« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2016, 22:10:06 »

Hi everyone.

John - This is one of the big benefits of joining these forums, you get to read about the growers and hybridisers and from some, you find they are willing to freely share information and Jack was always one of these right back to the early days when he first came onto the Garden Web Forums as "Vriesea".

I've never met Jack in person (as much as I would like to) as I have a problem traveling other than very short distances, but I have corresponded with him frequently and always found him to be very helpful and always willing to answer my questions if he can, and he's given me lots of helpful advice over the past few years.

After all, isn't sharing information and helping others what these forums are supposed to be all about?

All the best, Nev.
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« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2016, 13:50:27 »

Another reason these forums are good is the information is there forever, not lost having scrolled down a page.
There is room for both but so many people seem to prefer FB.
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splinter1804
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« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2016, 22:06:35 »

Hi everyone.

John and Kayleen - I have some more information to add to this discussion as Jack contacted me again yesterday with further interesting details about  Vr 'Angela'.

He said:

Hi Neville, further to our chat, there are at least 4 different plants (albeit a bit similar) circulating as "Angela" and it shows in the results when people have bred from these, there is only one though, John Mitchell in NZ is using the correct plant looking at his clone and his results, as is Bob Larnach , the true "Angela" is a nice dark red / brown plant with faint cross scribbles and a lilac/ mauve halo in the centre, cheers , Jack

About an hour later he added a bit more:

Hi Neville, couple of photos for you, both " Angela" pups, one is grown to shady but shows the lilac/ mauve halo in the centre just the same (bottom photo) only the true form does this.  the other is a old mum but showing the high colour of the plant in the pups, (top photo)

 
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I thanked him of course and his reply was:

All good Neville, only to happy to help , trust your discussion will be a great success , cheers my friend ,

It's handy to have good mates isn't it?

All the best, Nev.
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« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2016, 07:33:46 »

Nev, all good info for everyone, thanks. Its about time the above was set straight. In my case my Vr Angela came as a pup from my good friend John Mitchell and as far as I know there is only the one real version in NZ, yes it very much looks like above, you can get the whole plant to go red in very high light.

Cheers John
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« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2016, 22:21:06 »

Hi everyone.

John - Unfortunately, the bad news is that my plant of 'Angela' is the wrong one. bugger!

Anyway, I'll contact Jack and see if he'll sell me a pup of the real thing, I'm sure he will if he has a spare.

All the best, Nev.
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« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2016, 06:30:29 »

Hi Nev,

Well, just as well I read this thread because both the BCR and comments made here are both wrong, according to an article Jamie Larnach published 15 months ago and no doubt "young Jamie " got his facts from his father Bob Larnach. Corrections to the BCR were not fully made at the time (but have been now)  and Jamie's article appears with all BCR entries of the 3 registered grex siblings of V. Angela, Sister Angela & Erotica. So the hybrid was from V. fosteriana x ?, probably a birds-n-bees hybrid (not a selfing) from seed of Peter Carney's (Sydney) plant of V. fosteriana. From that collected seed Lou Forrest (Cobra Creek Nursery) grew on about 2000 seedlings. At the 2-years old stage, 1000 seedlings went to Bob Larnach (then Exotica Vale Nurseries) , from which the 3 named cultivars originated. So the pollen parent in the cross is unknown, from around 1982. What became of Lou Forrest's seedling batch later wasn't revealed in the article, but from the article, Noel Jupp (Riverdene Nursery) commented at the time about the complexity (variability) of the cross, which suggested "many pollen contributors to the one seed parent".

Geoff Lawn
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cultivars@bsi.org 
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splinter1804
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« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2016, 22:21:23 »

Hi everyone.

Geoff – Nice to hear from you again and thanks,  it’s great that you’re able to provide us with some accurate information about the history of Vr. ‘Angela’; what’s more it’s right from the horse’s mouth so to speak.

Anyone wanting to read what Jamie Larnach wrote about Vr. ‘Angela’, you can read the whole document on the updated B.C.R. Vr. ‘Angela’ entry at: http://registry.bsi.org/?genus=VRIESEA&id=8358#8358

It seems that just maybe this forum could be staring to pick up a bit with a post yesterday from Sid Marx (“Extra Spines”) and now from Geoff today on this thread. Hopefully some others may follow, we can only hope.

All the best, Nev.
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