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Author Topic: Very much underrated bromeliads that should be in more collections  (Read 2955 times)
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jaga
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« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2016, 05:47:29 »

Hi Kayleen, some very nice ones for me still to collect from what you are showing. Especially, Ruby lee , rutlans var & Angustifolium. Thanks for showing them all.

Cheers John
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splinter1804
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« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2016, 19:41:25 »

Hi everyone.

John - I have that particular plant growing in my Neoregelia shade house beneath 75% beige shade cloth along with mostly Neoregelias.

I can't answer your question about how Peter got his original pup to what you have today; all I can suggest is that Peter must have done a lot of work to get his plant stable as well. I don't know Peter but perhaps you could ask him.

As I understand it, stabilising a plant is a long and drawn out process over several generations with each generation, just keeping the best pup from that particular year and tossing others that don't show any promise.

It was interesting that the Plant pictured on the cover of our Newslink and which Nina had brought to our meeting was showing a non-variegated pup which surprised even Nina as she said she thought it was stabilised as it hadn't produced any non-variegated pups for several generations.

It just goes to show that "Mother Nature" always has the "last say".

All the best, Nev.

This is the picture of that same plant that Nina brought to our meeting and clearly shows the plain pup which appeared after several generations working on stabilisation.

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jaga
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« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2016, 01:21:40 »

Thanks Nev. Will be interesting to see how the pups come out on our Nid Miranda one day as well. As far as stabilising a variegate? I'm not convinced any are really 'stable', just about every one we own will throw a mixture of pups, just noticed our Neo 'Bobs dream' pups a few days back and one has inverted from what it supposed to be. this is getting off topic and its a very complicated subject so will continue this on a new post maybe but does 'stable' mean every pup has the variegate in the same place on the leaf all is there some flexibility on this? and how many 'novars' are allowed on a plant and it still be considered stable?

Cheers John
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splinter1804
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« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2016, 22:20:00 »

Hi everyone.

John - You mention stability in brom's and in particular your Neo 'Bobs Dream'; Neo. 'Bob's Dream' has several links through parentage with the "Aussie Dream" grex and from my own experience and what other growers tell me, unstable plants from this grex are not uncommon. To give an example, I have Neo 'Red Glow' which is from the Aussie Dream grex and usually an albo-marginated plant, but almost every year it produces pups with different patterns in the variegation and occasionally NOVARS.

As for the definition of “stable” in relation to bromeliads, I don’t really know the answer, maybe Geoff can define it in this sense. I looked up the 44 page Glossary by Derek Butcher on the FCBS site and it doesn’t appear in there, so I think we just have to go on dictionary definitions and try and relate them to bromeliads.

I seem to remember some years ago reading about the requirements for registering a bromeliad name on the BCR when Derek Butcher was registrar. I don’t know who wrote the article (but I suspect probably Derek). There was something about the plant needing to be grown through several successive generations (I’m not sure but I think 4 was mentioned)to be sure it was stable before registering it. Again, maybe Geoff can fill us in about this.

On the other hand, the Nid. ‘Miranda’ was grown though more generations than this and it still throws the occasional NOVAR (albeit rarely).

As for your question, “how many 'NOVARS' are allowed on a plant and it still be considered stable?”.

To answer this I would say, “How long is a piece of string?”.  As every plant has a different genetic make-up I don’t imagine there can possibly be a straight answer to this question, I have no idea, perhaps another question for Geoff.

All the best Nev.

The following pic’s are of Neo. ‘Red Glow’ plants all from the same original mother plant which was albo-marginated. Plants in pictures 1, 3, 4 and 5 have all flowered and pic 2 is a pup.

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Kayleen C
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« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2016, 02:43:01 »

Thanks for the comments Nev.

 Nat DeLeon is called Nid. ‘Red Queen’. I suspected that as they look the same to me.
I am not sure where I have bought a couple of plants you have asked about but will see what I can find.
I will check out what pups I have as I have just broken a few off.
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« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2016, 08:50:35 »

Gosh Nev, would not have believed it , so much variation!!, not one looks the same. Do you have a image of what Neo red glow is supposed to look like?
Thanks for your comments above. It would be good to have registration base rules on variegation to stop this sort of thing from happening, people have payed a lot of money to collect these plants and its very disappointing to end up with so much variation.

Cheers John.
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« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2016, 20:05:32 »

Hi everyone.

John - The plant in the first picture is how it looked when I first bought it and I believe that is how it is supposed to look as it seemed to have a red glow about it. I should also have mentioned that theses changes took place over a period of about ten or more years and there were also a few NOVARS among the pups as well.

I searched through the photo indices of the BCR and the FCBS but couldn't see it listed but when I did a search on the BCR I see that it's now been called 'Larnach's Red Glow'. Apparently there were two 'Red Glows', and each has had the hybridiser's name added to avoid confusion. The other one was ‘Anderson's Red Glow’ which according to the BCR, "Grace Goode indicated this plant was no longer in cultivation".

Unfortunately, neither have a picture to compare with, but according to the BCR, Bob Larnach describes his hybrid as  " 8" rosette variegated - orange-red over all leaves", and that's pretty close in both size and colour to the original plant I bought.

All the best, Nev.
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splinter1804
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« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2016, 21:37:45 »

Hi everyone.

John - I decided as a last resort to do a "Google" search to see what I could find out about Neo. 'Larnach's Red Glow' and I think I hit the jackpot first up. I do have the URL but it's a bit long to post here and if you want it I can message it to you.

I know that "Aussie Dream" isn't a cultivar name and I also know that 'Red Glow' is now called 'Larnach's Red Glow' but the parentage of the "Aussie Dream" grex given from what was found in the search is almost correct with the exception of the omission of the word (variegated) after meyendorffii and I think that the picture and description given is sufficient to support what I've been saying.about the instability of Neo. 'Larnach's Red Glow'.

Below is the picture and the accompanying text which says "Neoregelia meyendorffii x olens 'Marie': 'Aussie Dream Red Glow', NOVAR (i.e. variant that has lost variegation) | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

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All the best, Nev.
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jaga
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« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2016, 06:26:45 »

Nev you have done a lot of search work and all very interesting, my conclusion is you may well have the only variegated versions and it seems to me that the plant, including the rest of the grex should have tested before the better stable ones were registered but... its easy to say that now we all know a lot more about these plants.

So back to the 5 plants you show, some are albomarginated and some are variegated, if you now from these plants off spring just keep pups that match the parents you could well stabilise all of the versions given time.

Thanks for sharing all the info, I wonder how stable the other Aussie Dream grex plants are?, my 'Tartan Princess' does seem OK., and a few have been used for hybridizing.

I'm still hoping for some input from Geoff on this subject.

Cheers John.
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Kayleen C
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« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2016, 11:45:01 »

Here are the rest of my nids Nev.
Nana
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Orange Innocentii
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Brazil.  I am not sure on the flower colour.
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Midnight. This is only new.
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Fernando subursii
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Purpurum
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Raru
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Madonna
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Procerum
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I also have one called Innocentii. looks the same as Orange Innocentii
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Kayleen C
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« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2016, 12:41:02 »

Nev let me know if you want any pups from these.
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jaga
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« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2016, 04:54:24 »

Hi all, saw this in a garden this weekend.
Nid  'Odd Ball'
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Interesting as has spines +has fine variegations. This one is growing in full shade.

Cheers John.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2016, 04:58:07 by jaga » Logged
splinter1804
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« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2016, 08:13:05 »

Hi everyone.

John - i haven't seen this one before and it's certainly a bit different to the norm. On checking it up on he BCR and the FCBS sites I see that its from a procerum seed parent and although the pollen parent isn't given, it's said to have very strong links to the recently (2000) resurrected angustifolium species. (Was previously Nid. viridium)
See: http://registry.bsi.org/?genus=NIDULARIUM&id=7904#7904

When viewing the pictures of angustifolium on the FCBS Species Photo Index (No. 5 on the species index) it's surprising just how much it looks like the picture of your plant and it certainly makes one suspect that this species could have been its pollen parent in my view.

All the best, Nev.
   
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jaga
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« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2016, 09:06:14 »

Yes Nev checked out 'Odd ball' info in BCR as well. I have  requested a pup to add to my Nid collection.

Nid Raru flowering
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Cheers John
« Last Edit: March 29, 2016, 09:09:48 by jaga » Logged
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Kayleen C
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« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2016, 11:44:54 »

May be a sport off Angustifolium. I have a picture of mine one page back and it is varigated but the opposite varigation to yours John.
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