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Author Topic: Atypical blooms  (Read 2007 times)
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Reginaldo
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« on: September 29, 2014, 18:36:27 »

Hi everyone

In the two pictures below flowers have six petals (normal: 3). The photos show the first flower opened, but I've seen that the flowers are opening and then present the same characteristic.


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This other Dyckia sp floral stems are emerging from the center of the rosette (normal is the side issue)
This species was collected in a region that is hundreds of miles from any species of Encholirium.
In this case, the photo was taken some time ago, the plant has bloomed and the rosette withered without issue sprouts

one side:

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other side:

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chefofthebush
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« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2014, 19:26:24 »

Thanks for those picture Reginaldo! Interesting, very interesting. I am just throwing an idea into the air here, but I wonder if the plant could have mutated in having the double the amount of chromosomes. Often when this happens some plant features are exaggerated.

What does the rest of the forum think?

Conrad
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jaga
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« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2014, 23:11:37 »

Hi every one, Good pics Reginaldo. Very interesting, glad some else has noticed this as had the same with a number of Vriesea and to a lesser extent Neo's. With Vriesea have had 3 stigmas with only one anther then the next flower that opens is back to normal, 1 stigma with 6 anthers. In the case of Neos worst case had 12 anthers and no stigma but one Neo in particular has the flower petals open with none of the above for every flower. That has happened every time the plant has flowered.  Must be some sort of genetic system malfunction.

all the best Jaga
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splinter1804
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« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2014, 23:25:33 »

Hi everyone.

You’ve done it again Reginaldo. Thanks for sharing those fantastic unusual photographs, they’re certainly something to get our brains working on and hopefully come up with an answer.

I remember years ago when I grew orchids I once read an article about the effects of Polyploidy with orchid seedlings. I’ve forgotten most of what I read but there was some way of treating the plants to increase the Polyploidy. It was all far too technical for my non-scientific brain so I just left it to the experts. I did read however, that in the US at that time scientists were using a chemical called “Colchicine” which was said to be able to double the amount of chromosomes within a plant which would have the ability of possibility changing diploid seedlings into tetraploids.  Read all about it at:   
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/4353239?uid=3737536&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&sid=21104243171371 

Basically, an average plant has 2 sets of chromosomes (Diploids).
To enhance certain qualities in some species, scientist have bred Tetraploids (four sets of chromosomes). The flowers on Tetraploids are generally bigger than those on other varieties of the same species, but there are fewer of them and the plant generally grows slower than the types with 2 sets of chromosomes. The plants of Tetraploids are heavier in substance and the blooms are often larger and much more substantial, with more intense color. There are pictures in an article on the following site to demonstrate this. See: https://www.aos.org/Default.aspx?id=390   

There is also an informative article about Polyploidy in plants which can be found at the following site:  http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ultranet/BiologyPages/P/Polyploidy.html

However there is no mention in any of these articles about doubling the number of petals on a flower so is this Dyckia plant just a case of a natural tetraploid “gone wrong” or are other factors involved ?

I’m wondering if in the case of Reginaldo’s  Dyckia, if it wasn’t a case of alteration of the chromosomes as I mentioned above, could it be a mix-up of the genes that caused this phenomenon which gives the flowers the six petals instead of three? A similar thing appears with the leaves in clovers where instead of the normal three leaves, on rare occasions there are four.

In this case, the jury still seems to be out and It is debated whether the fourth leaflet is caused genetically or environmentally. Its relative rarity (1 in 10,000 clovers) suggests a possible recessive gene appearing at a low frequency. Alternatively, four-leaf clovers could be caused by somatic mutation or a developmental error of environmental causes. They could also be caused by the interaction of several genes that happen to segregate in the individual plant. It is also possible all four explanations could apply to individual cases.   

I have no idea of the answer, but we should remember that a gene is located on a chromosome and every factor in inheritance is due to a particular gene. Genes specify the structure of particular proteins that make up each cell an cells are the building blocks of all life.

My final “two bob’s worth” is not based on my experience but on bits and pieces of articles I have read on the various subjects;  surely there is someone on here with a more scientific brain than mine who can explain it better than I.

All the best, Nev.   
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jaga
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« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2014, 02:17:45 »

We do have such a person in NZ brom society , will see if he can make a comment but may be technical. Will send him the link. He wont be able to see the pics but believe he can still read the text.
Jaga.
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Hawi
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« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2016, 09:09:42 »

Hi folks,
Sorry for the delay in commenting, but the topic is still  "on the table".  There are some good articles about that in Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-flowered

And in greater detail:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABC_model_of_flower_development
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chefofthebush
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« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2016, 18:57:28 »

Thanks Hawi,

Nice to see someone new posting although I see you have been around a while. Thanks for that interesting info too.

At one stage of my horticultural career I was growing cut Roses and some chemicals used in pest and disease control created spontaneous mutations and deformities in the plants. Those usable mutations, called "sports", are a beneficial byproduct, but most were useless and an nuisance. Some were really weird. I had one flower produce an stem from its centre with another flower on that stem.

Just some info...

Keep posting,

Conrad
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