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Author Topic: ID request  (Read 733 times)
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Mike W
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« on: May 06, 2013, 18:05:39 »

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No label on this one, any ideas what it might be.  I like the purple coloring.  Mike
« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 11:28:16 by Mike W » Logged
chefofthebush
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« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2013, 11:13:21 »

Hi Mike, You will have to wait for the flowering stage before anyone would have a guess. Looks like a good plant. I have several similar coloured plants, but each a different cultivar.

Remember that the plant colour itself will change depending on light intensity, temperature and stress factors. I have grown some of my neo cultivars in semi-shade, full sun, and in full sun as an epiphyte, and the variance of colour and growth habit is very noticeable.

It is fun playing with these critters!

Have Fun.

Conrad
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Mike W
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« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2013, 21:02:29 »

Thanks Conrad.

I'll display my ignorance here.  I have ID some Broms thru their inflorescence and flower, but not Neos.  I haven't really made much of an effort re them - are the flowers that different??.  They all seem purplish maybe with a bit of white.  My sense also is that FCBS pics don't usually show the Neo  flower either, at least more than as part of the entire plant. 

thanks Mike
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Lisa
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« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2013, 00:45:47 »

Mike, while Neos may show less obvious variation in floral structure than some other genera, there are a number of things that can be better determined when the plant is in bloom, not the least of which is whether or not the center undergoes any color or pattern change at anthesis (bloom time).  FCBS and the BCR do like to have photos of flowering specimens for this reason, although if the patterns and coloration remain pretty much the same throughout its growth cycle, it may not matter so much, so it's not a strict requirement for registering a Neo hybrid.  Even less so for something like Cryptanthus, where all the flowers are white and the foliage doesn't change at all.

For Neo species, however, they do try to show the inflorescence if at all possible, and I think if you look at those photos you will see that there is actually quite a bit of variation in coloration, size and shape of petals and floral bracts of different species, as well as the form of the flower (i.e. is it tubular, funnel-shaped, or does it open almost flat).  Taxonomists are able to make IDs based solely on Neo inflorescences, but for most of us the foliage characteristics are at least as helpful. 

When you get into hybrids, of course, all the species floral traits get muddied, so it becomes less of a diagnostic tool.  Still, if you know that a particular cultivar has white petals, and the plant you are looking at has purple ones, that is enough to at least rule it out.  The main thing we want to see, however, is what the whole plant looks like when it reaches blooming size.  Does the cup turn red, or purple, or stay the same?  Are there some faint marmorated markings that become more pronounced at anthesis?  A mature plant of, say, a concentrica or johannis type hybrid is likely to show more of the characteristic blotches or concentric banding than a pup is (provided it's grown in adequate light, of course).  All of these things come into play when making an ID, and with Neos it is particularly difficult because there are so many thousands of hybrids.  Some cultivars are distinctive enough that one could call it immediately just looking at a young plant, but the one in your photo doesn't have enough going on to tell much of anything at all.  Therefore the assumption is that it must do something more than that when it's blooming, or why bother keeping it?  Not to be disparaging, just trying to explain the thought processes at work here. 
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chefofthebush
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« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2013, 06:14:37 »

Bravo, Well said Lisa!

You can hear the expert talk!

My apologies for being vague Mike. But Lisa has said it perfectly.

You have now entered the detective side of Bromeliad collecting. Have Fun.

Best wishes,

Conrad
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Mike W
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« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2013, 11:46:06 »


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Thanks Lisa and Conrad, for the helpful response. 
I will have to check in daylight what it looks like now.  the pic in this post is in August, and the first pic was May, so more sun has given it more purplish coloration.  My photo file has a pic of N. Gee Whiz in it (no recollection how I found it!) that looks similar. 

 I haven't seen all that many Neos, maybe a couple hundred, so my sampling is limited.  But I guess I found this one sort of different than most I had seen - primarily the brownish/purple leaves.     

Mike 
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Lisa
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« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2013, 18:50:07 »

There are reportedly several different clones of Gee Whiz.  I have two of them, so I know there's at least that many.  While their coloration when not in bloom is kind of vague, they do have one notable feature--- they're REALLY BIG (hence the name).  I'm not getting a GW buzz off of your photos, Mike, either in size or coloration (at least the 2 that I know).  So for me, that's one down and several thousand still to go.....  Roll Eyes

To be perfectly honest, I kind of doubt you're going to get a rock solid ID even when it's blooming.  There are a ton of what I consider vaguely "concentrica-ish" Neos, including not only the many variations of N. concentrica itself, but also the hundreds of hybrids of all of those, and similar looking hybrids of N. coriacea, N. johannis (which is where Gee Whiz comes in) and possibly a few other similar species.  This group constitutes maybe (just off the top of my head) a third of all Neos in cultivation, and frankly, unless it's something I grow myself, I would be hard pressed to ID most of them.  Part of that may be a blind spot on my part, but there's just very little that makes one cultivar totally distinct from so many others.  If you had a tag and were asking "Do you think this is right or wrong?", that would be a lot easier to answer, but a cold ID in this group is really hard.   Undecided

I've made this analogy before, but I think it's worth making again, just to put things into perspective for beginning enthusiasts.  Say you saw a person on the street or cut their photo out of a magazine and were trying to put a name to the face.  If the person is a movie star, there's a good possibility someone online can help you, but the vast majority of humans are not celebrities.  So it is with bromeliad hybrids.  Looking through FCBS or the BCR is like trying to identify your mystery person by looking through all of the photos on Facebook.  Not only is it a huge undertaking, but not everybody is on Facebook, and the ones that are may not look much like their photos.  Don't get me wrong, the online photo indexes can be a big help, but approaching them with the idea that you can arrive at a definitive answer by process of elimination is not realistic.  Not everything has a name or is on there, and the photos may have been taken under very different conditions.

I hope I haven't discouraged you too much, that is certainly not my intention.  I just want to pull the plug on the "If it's not A or B, than it must be C" way of thinking.  I wish it were that simple, but it's not.  
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Mike W
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« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2013, 23:02:15 »

   
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THanks again LIsa.

Here it is today, lots of sun, actually some leaf burn not shown.

No, I am not discouraged.  And I don't particularly expect an ID, tho one can always be surprised.  I am actually happy to get a "vaguely 'concentrica-ish." ID.

Part of my problem, and that of a novice, is that we don't have much of a clue as to what is distinctive, and what isn't.  I think I have mentioned I have a lot of raffle plants, and I haven't posted most of them since I expect there is no likelihood of an ID as they seem too generic.  BUt sometimes I post one, and am surprised that you or others suggest a possible ID, and others I post and am surprised that you don't since to me is seems more distinctive.  And with 4000+ hybrids, there can't be that many that don't have close look alikes.   Actually, for Neos at least, I expect the best result is that someone has something a lot like it, and might say it is lot like my whatever.  But not rock solid for sure!

Finally, since I am beating the topic to death, I think novices (like me) often don't appreciate the distinctions you and others see.  I think I saw Gee Whiz only because it is the seed parent of Purple Gem which I got and I like to check out the parents on FCBS.  There are 4 pics of Gee Whiz on FCBS, and all are a bit (or more) different  in color and how many concentrica like rings are shown (from a lot to almost none!).  To me, my plant looks quite a bit like the last photo by Pisan.  Mine is much more upright, and probably smaller.  That makes it different, but again I can't assess if that is meaningful or a function of how mine is grown and its age - how big will mine get, and how long will it take to get there? 

thanks Mike
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