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Author Topic: Tillandsia hasei - anyone got it?  (Read 1113 times)
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Robin
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« on: October 19, 2012, 14:57:59 »

Prelude to the question:  Lotte Hromnadik discovered this little beauty in Bolivia - east of Camargo in the mountains.  This is a very dissected landscape and every little gully has a new discovery in it!  Check out http://www.tillandsia.at/bolivien.htm

Now.  I know that T. cf. argentina has been discovered in this vicinity as well.  And so the plot thickens.  Rolf Rawe discovered what he called T. argentina "major" in Cuesta da Tortoral en route to Catamarca where it was growing on steep rocky slopes.  Check out http://journal.bsi.org/V24/4/ (Rolf used Tillandsia unca as the name for T. argentina)

He told me he only found the one plant. It is quite vigorous in cultivation.  To my mind it was a hybrid between T. argentina and possibly xiphioides.  But......where Rolf discovered this "hybrid" the only other plants were T. ixioides, T. gilliesii and T. capillaris!  And one of these are expressed in the hybrid. 

So the question that has been milling around my head is: is this possibly not T. hasei or similar and not a hybrid?!  Even though Camargo and Catamarca are about 870km apart as the crow flies the habitat and climate are not dissimilar.  And given that T. cf argentina has popped up close to where T. hasei grows - you see where I'm going with this!

Back to the Q at hand!  Who has this little beauty - and if you do can you post pics of it flowering.  Also does anyone have access to the description by Renate and Lotte?  I would love to dissect some flowers and see if it conforms to the diagnostic features presented by them in the description.

Cheers

Robin

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gonzer
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Gnarly dude!


« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2012, 23:39:12 »

Sorry Robin, mine has not flowered yet as it is very slow but I see where you're going. In hand there are similarities to argentina and xiphioides v. minor. The last photo is a new plant I obtained tentatively named T. argentina 'Giant Form', although I'm no fan of unpublished names. The basal leaf dessication is very apparent. Will send a PM with Lotte's description.

T. hasei

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T. xiphioides v. minor


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T. argentina v. minor


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T. argentina


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T. argentina 'Giant Form'


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and just for the heck of it here's my T. lithophila in bloom today.


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« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2012, 00:26:32 »

Tillandsia  hasei R.Ehlers & L. Hromadnik      Die Bromelie 3/1996 p. 76- 77

Plant terrestrial,  strong rooted on rocks, growing in large mats or groups, flowering 6 – 10 cm high,  2 – 2.5 cm diam, short stemmed, making an erect, spreading, strongly secund, rosette with numerous ( 10 – 20 ) leaves. Leaves densely polystichous to 6 cm long, the basal ones often short and robust, very thick, hard and stiff, almost succulent, strongly nerved, grey, dense grey lepidote, the edges with large asymmetric winged trichomes.
Sheath a little distinct, 10 – 20 mm long, 7 – 12 mm wide at base, elliptic – triangular, inside at the base  1 – 2 mm glabrous, otherwise fine grey scaled at both sides.
Blade  4 – 5 mm wide next to sheath, 2 – 4 cm long, very narrow – triangular, attenuate or long – caudate, involute, subulate, inside keeled, strongly nerved particularly the outside, both sides with large grey scales.
Scape very short, 1 – 2cm long, hidden in rosette, erect, or bent over, ca 2mm diam, round, glabrous, densely imbricate with the sheath of the subfoliate, grey, lepidote, scape bracts and not visible.
Scape bracts at the bottom to 2cm long, the upper ones always with more shorter blade and similar to the floral bracts.
Inflorescence always simple, 2 – 2.5cm long, 3 – 6mm wide, narrow lanceolate, acute, complanate, with a few (1 – 3) distichous sessile flowers, mostly one apical, at the very top a sterile bract.
Rhachis glabrous, 4 angled, wavy, almost straight.
Flower bracts imbricate, the rhachis visible, 1.5 – 2.3cm long, 5 – 7mm at base, triangular with long narrow acuminate tip, exceeds the sepals by 5 – 8mm, leathery, strongly nerved, outside red, glabrous at base, the upper third particularly the tip with large grey scales.
Sepals 1.3 – 1.5cm long, 3mm wide, lanceolate acuminate, free, the front weakly, the posterior strongly keeled, very thin leathery, glabrous, nerved, light green with a red tip.
Petals 2.5 – 2.9cm long, the upper portion 2.5mm wide, linear, without a distinct blade, erect, the rounded tip very strongly bent back outwards or rolled under, shiny carmine red, the base white,.
Stamens enclosed in flower tube, Filament 1.5cm long (twisted 1.7), pleated 2 – 3 times in the middle, thin ribbonlike, white, Anthers 3.5 – 4mm long, 0.4mm wide, linear, joined at the base, olive yellow, Pollen egg yellow. Style 1.5cm long, thin, white, Stigma very small (0.8mm x 0.8mm), Lobes spreading, white.
Ovary 2mm long, 1mm wide, elliptic, light green.
Type locality Bolivia, Chuquisaca, Distr. Nor-Cinti, near Culpina, growing on rocks in a river bed with T. capillaris and Cactus, 3100m.  Collected by Frank Hase, E Heger, L. Hromradnik, R Ehlers, Feb 1995. Holotype EB951501.( WU ), Paratype Hr 19046 (WU)

Differs from T. argentina in
1.   Plant long caulescent
2.   Leaves strongly secund, not green partly grey, very strongly and large lepidote, strongly nerved.
3.   Blade topside keeled not the bottom, not finishing in a short sharp tip but partly
      narrowing with long secund acuminate tip.
4.   Inflorescence smaller, few flowered, the spike a half or a third as wide, and a very apiculate tip.
5.   Floral bracts narrow triangular, with much longer narrow tip (almost caudate), membranous, strongly nerved, the upper third large lepidote.
      6.   Petals without platte and narrow.
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Robin
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« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2012, 08:00:42 »

Thanks Gonzer and Bruce!  I sure hope you didn't have to type out that description! 

So I popped in at the nursery yesterday and the mystery plant was coming into bloom (inflorescence nicely coloured up but no flowers yet)  and armed with the description (Gonzer was kind enough to pm it to me) I proceeded to analyse the little creature.

It most certainly is not T. hasei!  In the past all the inflorecences were very short and compact - I think it was being grown too hard.  Earlier this year I moved few clumps to a slightly more humid position - these now showed there true colours!  The inflorescence is long - about 15cm.  It is definitely a hybrid - all evidence pointing at T. ixioides and T. argentina!  The inflorescence looks very much like T. jucunda though.  But.......jucunda and ixioides are closely related - some even feel that jucunda itself is a hybrid between ixioides and tenuifolia!  How true that is I don't know but remember that jucunda var viridiflora is now actually ixioides subsp. viridiflora!

So I conclude the mystery as solved!  Thanks for the input and also the pics!  Its always nice to accessions from Hortus Gonzer!

Cheers
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« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2012, 23:08:58 »

T hasei fails to thrive at downtown Repton. Luckily I gave most of it to a mate in the cooler south, in Melbourne. Nice specimen of T lithophylla, Gonzer. I can grow it too though mine have bloomed with a single spike. Robin, there are others in this group, like T colorata and the new T violaceiflora which, unlike hasei, grow OK in my more humid climate. So many niches in the habitats that there must be more 'species' yet to come and no doubt some are already in cultivation if only we knew. Cheers, Pedro
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« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2014, 09:16:05 »

Reviving an old one here as it has relevant info rather than starting a new topic (same same but different)

OK have a look here: http://www.bromeliadforum.za.net/forum/index.php?topic=2039.0

And here:  Reply #138 (Conrad's (chefofthebush) pics)  on the "Let's see some pictures" thread.

Note how this thing's inflorescence is not bilaterally compressed i.e. not flat!  T. argentina has a flat, spear-like inflorescence - like xiphioides for example.  Note how the bracts are spirally arranged - like jucunda or ixioides.

I am not convined that this entity is a "major" form of argentina.  It might even constitute a new taxon altogether.  At worst I think it is a hybrid between argentina and jucunda.

Phase 1 Cat amongst the pigeons.  Complete.

Initiate Phase 2.

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« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2014, 12:52:26 »

Hi Robin, Still shaking the tree, I see..

I got this plants as argentina major from Glenn in CT. I will take a couple of other photos of the plant itself to post. Now to find the real argentina major.....

Conrad
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« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2014, 14:19:09 »

Hi Conrad

Trying to see if anything interesting falls out of it!

I don't think there is an T. argentina major.  The only thing that goes by that name is this strange thing - and it's not T. argentina!  The flowers are also too dissimilar - argentina has ribbon-like petals whereas this thing they are more like ixioides (broad and rounded).  And the inflorescence is definitely different.

I think all the material in collections around the world originated with Rolf Rawe's collection from Cuesta da Tortoral en route to Catamarca (Argentina).  He told me he only found one clump - another clue in the puzzle: it is almost unheard of for Tillandsia to be growing solitary - it is more likely for a hybrid though.  It is also mega vigorous - more so than T. argentina even.

I think I will try crossing T. ixioides with T. argentina and then wait a decade or so to see if my theory is correct.

Cheers

Robin

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« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2014, 18:31:28 »

I bought several plants some time ago. Kept this one as it was a little bigger and looked happier. I do recall one of the other plants having a rose coloured flower. But I did sell those off quickly. I concur, I too do not think this is an argentina. On retrospect the brilliant pink flowers of the other as opposed to this pale salmon....This plant shape is very rigid and quite robust. (I know I promised a picture - I will get to it!).

Again on the hunt for me!

Thanks for re-kindling this topic.

Conrad
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« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2014, 13:21:31 »

Cool Robin, here they are...

The bigger one is the one in doubt, The smaller one also labled 'argentina' has different shaped and curved leaves, It has not yet flowered for me in about two years since I have had it and growth was slow. Both were bought from the same supplier (Glenn) at the same time....

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« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2014, 02:35:22 »

Hi everyone.

This is turning into a great informative thread for Tillandsia growers, (unfortunately I'm not one of them) but interested nevertheless, so keep up the good work, and thanks for sharing.

All the best, Nev.
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Gnarly dude!


« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2014, 13:11:44 »

Conrad, have you compared T. genseri?
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« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2014, 21:46:22 »

Not yet Gonz! aI am waiting for the second smaller one to come into flower. I had about 4 of theses plants but sold them when they had flowers on. The flowers on the sold plants were typically the pink argentina colour. The larger one is this slightly peachy colour. I have learnt a lesson; when in doubt, keep it!

Conrad
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« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2014, 10:53:29 »

Greg, Conrad

Tillandsia genseri has a similar inflorescence to T. argentina.  The plant in question has a somewhat cylindrical inflorescence - it is very similar to T. jucunda.  I think I should posy some pics for Eric and the gand to look at on the Brom Identification Page at Utretch University - maybe will get a clearer answer.  But for the mo I consider TR. argentina "major" as a natural hybrid with T. argentina as one of the parents.
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